Thank you for joining us on this official launch of the Muni Square Podcast. My name is Nancy Hess, I am publisher of MuniSquare on Substack. Our guest today is Professor John Kincaid, Professor of Government and Public Service from LaFayette College, Pennsylvania.
Inside MuniSquare we explore the the mirroring effect of government, society, and culture. Our conversations illuminate pressing topics and break down how communities and governments that represent them are impacted by these issues.
This podcast flows from a Substack publication. We began a little over a month ago to broaden perspectives on public service by bringing in voices of practitioners and scholars from across the globe. Today we are joined by Professor Kincaid, a renowned scholar specializing in federalism. In our conversation we'll address fundamental questions about [00:01:00] federalism in the United States today.
What makes an issue constitutional? Who decides these questions? How might recent executive actions in immigration, deportation, and funding impact local governments? And what are the potential consequences for our economy, higher education, and international relationships? This is an informed, enlightened conversation that brings clarity to how federalism works in the US today, particularly as we navigate polarization and uncertainty
GUEST BIO
John Kincaid is the Robert B. and Helen S. Meyner Professor of Government and Public Service and Director of the Meyner Center for the Study of State and Local Government at Lafayette College, Easton, Pennsylvania. He also is Senior Editor of the Global Dialogue on Federalism, a joint project of the Forum of Federations and International Association of Centers for Federal Studies, and an elected fellow of the National Academy of Public Administration.
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Episode Key Ideas:
Understanding Federalism [00:03:00-00:05:00]
Professor Kincaid explains that federalism fundamentally represents a division of sovereignty between the national government and the states:
"Fundamentally it's a division of sovereignty. Which was one of the revolutionary contributions of the founders to political thought and the organization of political societies. People thought sovereignty could not be divided, and that's what they ended up doing... Justice Sandra Day O'Connor put it, they split the atom of sovereignty." [00:03:16]
He notes that the Constitution and federalism aim to balance national unity with regional diversity:
"One of the objectives of federalism is to achieve as much national unity as you can. And by preserving the autonomy of the states, you're also preserving the diversity that exists in a society." [00:03:52]
Recent Constitutional Challenges [00:06:00-00:09:00]
The podcast explores what makes an issue constitutional, with Professor Kincaid explaining that ultimately, the Supreme Court decides:
"In the final analysis what makes it constitutional is what the Supreme Court says, makes it constitutional. The Constitution has some very explicit language about which there can't be much debate." [00:06:18]
Regarding executive power, he notes: "Certainly what we're seeing with Trump is that he's pushing the boundaries of executive power, much farther than any previous president. And that's generating all of the court cases that we are seeing." [00:07:42]
Immigration and Local Impact [00:11:00-00:19:00]
On the complex issue of deportation and immigration policy:
"Regarding deportations, there are certainly due process issues here. But these are very muddied by the president's foreign policy powers, and the courts have always given the president a wide berth on foreign policy." [00:11:56]
The economic impact on local communities is significant: "Immigrants take many jobs that native born Americans are not willing to take or are not interested in taking. These immigrant groups have revitalized some downtown areas... they are an important part of the labor supply." [00:17:15]
Economic Consequences [00:22:00-00:25:00]
Professor Kincaid highlights the wide-ranging economic impacts:
"I think we're gonna see a big drop off in tourism in the United States... communities, particularly in some of the southern states that voted for Trump, are already seeing a huge drop in Canadian tourists." [00:22:40]
"We'll see fewer foreign students wanting to come study at universities... Graduate students are the most lucrative students for universities. And, so having much fewer foreign students coming to study and master's in PhD programs, it's gonna be a big financial hit." [00:23:45]
Polarization and Local Government [00:27:00-00:30:00]
The nationalization of local issues is reshaping governance:
"We'll see the kind of policy whiplashes in state and local governments that we see already in the federal government as the Congress and the White House change parties... Political scientists talk about the nationalization of state and local politics, and increasingly voters are voting for state and local officials based on their national party orientations." [00:27:45]
International Relations and Trust [00:33:00-00:35:00]
Professor Kincaid expresses concern about long-term international relationships:
"The rest of the world faces the same uncertainty that we do. The European Union, Canada, Mexico, they're in a situation where they never know when the voters are gonna elect someone like President Trump again... the next generation of leaders in foreign countries are gonna be acting with that uncertainty in mind." [00:33:11]
Trust in Institutions [00:35:00-00:36:30]
On rebuilding trust in institutions:
"A core problem is that voters have a very low level of trust in all of our government institutions... People do have more trust and confidence in state and local governments. So that may give room for state and local governments to take more action." [00:35:11]
"Once that trust is lost, it's like a personal relationship... Once a friend of yours does something shocking and you lose trust in that friend, it's very hard to recover that trust. Same way, with government and institutions." [00:36:23]
The conversation provides vital context for understanding how federalism operates during times of political polarization and uncertainty, offering insights for local governments navigating these complex challenges.
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